Intervista a Tatò Carla

Travel and dream as creative paradigms..

C.T. Carla Tatò refers to the document Organisation of a Working Group with Research Grants (1981), preserved in the Carlo Quartucci-Carla Tatò Archive, Museo Biblioteca dell’Attore, Genova. 

Carla Tatò describes the company as a community of “travellers”, both in a physical and a mental sense. She defines theatrical practice not as a distinct rehearsal phase but as a permanent condition: “They were not rehearsals for a performance. I never rehearsed, especially during my theatrical life travelling with Carlo… I never rehearsed, and yet we were always rehearsing. It was a life in rehearsal, because travelling, as a continuous process of discovery, transforms you. It was a continuous metamorphosis” (00:01:17-00:01:48). Travelling, understood as a process of knowledge, generates the constant transformation of both performer and theatrical device. Within this framework, space – particularly Genazzano, marked by conditions of decay and discontinuity – acts as an active agent in the creative process: the relationship with the site and its inhabitants stimulates artistic experimentation and nurtures the desire to inhabit the place through performance. 

The local community and the concept of “shipwrecked culture”.

C.T. Carla Tatò distinguishes the context of the Roman suburbs from that of the smaller towns in the Province of Rome. Whereas artistic intervention in the suburbs took the form of political confrontation, the smaller communities were characterised by stronger social cohesion and relational openness, enabling shared forms of participation. 

Local peasant culture – exemplified by the wine festival Vinaliae – is presented as the structural foundation of the community. Within this context, each inhabitant assumed an active role in the creative process (“every citizen was a column”), contributing directly to the development of performances such as Uscite.

Tatò further develops the notion of “shipwrecked culture” through a dual genealogy: on the one hand, the European literary tradition (Lessing and Kleist); on the other, the performative traditions of Central European cabaret, particularly the Cabaret of the Eleven Executioners. The Prologue and the film Florville e Courval are presented as the inaugural artistic devices through which this reflection was articulated.

Creative devices and the dramaturgy of space.

C.T. Carla Tatò relates this choice to the theatrical research developed from 1977 onwards (New Theatre Festival, Spoleto), centred on the dual perspective of actor and spectator. 

D.O. Donatella Orecchia asks about the meaning of Paolini’s curtain. 

C.T. Upon arriving in Genazzano, previously used scenic materials were re-employed and reconfigured in new artistic settings. Platea (1982), created by Giulio Paolini and Carlo Quartucci in the Sala Martino V, introduced the curtain as a layered theatrical device capable of generating multiple levels of meaning. 

Voice, listening, and economic sustainability.

D.O. Donatella Orecchia asks about the local community’s response.

C.T. The audience responded immediately and enthusiastically, participating actively both in the performances and in the convivial environment of the Teatroteca.

D.O. Donatella Orecchia refers to the document Organisation of a Working Group with Research Grants, preserved in the Carlo Quartucci-Carla Tatò Archive, Museo Biblioteca dell’Attore, Genova. 

C.T. Tatò explains that the proposed project was never fully implemented because of limited institutional support. She highlights the company’s financial difficulties and the substantial debts accumulated while independently sustaining the project.

Open workshops and artistic networks.

C.T. The educational activities are described as open seminars designed to share creative processes rather than merely teach performance techniques. Among the key participants was the singer Edda Dell’Orso, introduced through the mediation of Marisa Fabbri. Connections between theatre, music, and cinema also emerge through projects such as the reinterpretation of Penthesilea (Kleist) and the production of audiovisual works in the Genazzano area. 

Workshop practice and community participation.

C.T. Carla Tatò explains that the workshop was conceived as a tool for fostering awareness within the local community. Drawing on the experience of Camion, the approach was based on openness and direct interaction with local residents through public assemblies and widespread communication systems, including loudspeakers.

Peasant culture is recognised as the foundation of listening and social relations, playing a decisive role in the success of the project. “Peasant culture was sovereign […]. It was an ancient culture capable of listening, and this, in my opinion, determined the real success of the whole experience of Genazzano” (00:30:36 – 00:31:06).

The dialectic between local and international dimensions. Germano Celant’s artistic programme.

C.T. Carla Tatò recalls establishing contact with Ritsaert ten Cate (Mickery Theatre, Amsterdam) and the international circulation of productions such as Nora Helmer and Robinson Crusoe.

The year 1982 marked a significant expansion of the project. Under the curatorial direction of Germano Celant, the programme increasingly focused on the American experimental scene, featuring artists such as Bob Ashley, Peter Gordon, David Van Tieghem, and Joan Jonas, representative figures of the American New Wave.

Interdisciplinary and “artistic friendship”.

C.T. Carla Tatò emphasises Celant’s curatorial ability to bring together heterogeneous artistic practices without generating competition, instead encouraging interdisciplinary dialogue. 

Genazzano fostered a climate of shared artistic practice that Tatò defines as “artistic friendship,” in which musicians, performers, and visual artists worked in continuous interaction within the same creative environment.

The temporal organisation of the project.

C.T. The project was organised around intensive working periods that concentrated workshops, seminars, and performances. Some members of the company – including Carlo Quartucci, Carla Tatò, Jannis Kounellis, and Michelle Coudray – lived permanently in Genazzano, while guest artists were accommodated in local facilities.

Didone: dramaturgical construction and the reactivation of voice (Carla Tatò).

C.T. Carla Tatò describes the vocal difficulties posed by the acoustics of Castello Colonna, whose strong reverberation made vocal control particularly challenging. The work therefore evolved into a technical and performative exploration aimed at “cutting through” the space, including the use of fabrics to modify sound propagation. 

A clear division of creative responsibilities emerged: Carla Tatò focused on vocal research, Jannis Kounellis on the visual construction of the stage image, and Carlo Quartucci on the overall organisation of the theatrical apparatus.

Tatò recalls how observing the Palestrina Mosaic together with Roberto Lerici inspired the dramaturgical concept of Didone, linking Aeneas’ arrival in Latium to the performance. Lerici’s text developed through a process of translation and rewriting, drawing simultaneously on classical sources (Virgil) and modern literature (Marlowe).

The performance was conceived as an immersive and conflictual environment. Visual elements (Kounellis’s “tongues of fire”), musical compositions (Giancarlo Schiaffini, Eugenio Colombo, Luigi Cinque, and Massimo Coen), and acoustic effects (the dry sound of billiard balls) combined to create a pervasive atmosphere of tension reminiscent of warfare.

D.O. Donatella Orecchia asks why Didone was chosen.

C.T. Tatò explains that the decision emerged directly from the spatial qualities of Genazzano itself. Didone is presented as a journey, moving from Virgil’s Latin to Roberto Lerici’s Italian adaptation.

The function of the narrator.

C.T. Carla Tatò describes the narrator as a device of verification and regeneration, evoking an almost tactile mode of acquiring knowledge.

D.O. Donatella Orecchia asks about the audience’s response.

C.T. The reception is described as overwhelmingly positive, to the extent of becoming what Tatò defines as an “epoch-making success”.

Didone at Documenta 7: transposition and spatial adaptation.

C.T. Carla Tatò emphasises the need to adapt the scenic score to different spatial contexts, particularly in the transition from Genazzano to Documenta 7.

Contact with Rudi Fuchs, who mediated the invitation, was established through Jannis Kounellis. The exhibition space in Kassel – described as a hybrid museum-theatre – required a perceptual and scenographic reconfiguration: spectatorship was organised from the ground upwards, producing an effect of vertical immersion.
The positioning of the performer’s body, directed upwards, created physiological difficulties in voice production that were deliberately transformed into a dramaturgical resource. The scream became an attractor, capable of arousing the audience’s curiosity and engagement.

Didone in Kassel: scenic variations.

Funerale in Kassel: industrial space and ritual dimension.

CT. Carla Tatò recalls the logistical and material challenges involved in the production, including transporting horses into the industrial space. The performance took place inside a former textile factory characterised by visual openings onto the city and by a temporal progression following the transition from sunset to night.

The performance ensemble was deliberately heterogeneous and international, bringing together opera singers, jazz musicians, actors, and dancers.

Tatò traces the dramaturgical origins of Funerale to the Cabaret of the Eleven Executioners and the funeral of Frank Wedekind, outlining a genealogy that intertwined political theatre with performative ritual.

The role of Carlo Quartucci.

C.T. Tatò emphasises Quartucci’s function as the overall coordinator of the production. He supervised every aspect of the creative process, from directing performers to overseeing costume design.
The performance space is remembered as an environment of intense emotional charge, where pain and beauty became intertwined, finding a form of redemption through performative action.

Collectivity, risk, and improvisation.

C.T. Carla Tatò highlights the contrast between the collective support provided by the performative procession in Funerale – including the presence and artistic dialogue with Elsa Piperno in Genazzano – and the condition of performative isolation experienced in Didone.

D.O. Donatella Orecchia asks about the degree of improvisation.

C.T. The instability of scenic elements, particularly the horses in Funerale, introduced an element of unpredictability and genuine risk. According to Tatò, this condition was deliberately sought by Quartucci and Kounellis as an integral dramaturgical component.
Risk thus became a shared experience between performers and spectators, generating a perceptual tension that permeated the entire event.

Authorial presence and reception at Documenta 7.

C.T. Tatò explains that both remained actively involved throughout the performances, staying at the margins of the action while remaining ready to intervene whenever necessary.

D.O. Donatella Orecchia asks about the positioning of the work within Documenta 7.

C.T. Carla Tatò stresses the company’s awareness of presenting an autonomous and distinctive artistic research capable of engaging with different interpretative contexts without losing its own specificity: “Yes, because we knew we were carrying something unique that could be approached from different perspectives. Therefore, although it was absolute in itself, it did not prevent people from experiencing it in other ways” (01:13:31-01:14:00).

Genazzano and the European context.

C.T. The European experience is described as a space of freedom and discovery, whereas returning to Genazzano represented a process of reflection and restitution.
The performances presented at the Ninfeo del Bramante – including Comédie Italienne and Funerale – became shared narratives through which the local community recognised continuity with its own lived experience.

Ninfeo del Bramante: practices of inhabiting space.

C.T. Carla Tatò recalls the challenges of inhabiting the Ninfeo del Bramante. She describes the intervention, designed by Toto Quartucci, as intentionally non-invasive: the site was respected in its original configuration, with only functional, non-transformative additions such as wooden flooring.
Audience participation remained informal and open, with spectators bringing their own chairs, thereby producing a non-institutional mode of spectatorship.
The coexistence of the historical architectural setting and the performing bodies generated a dialectical relationship between past and present.

Reactivating the Ninfeo del Bramante.

C.T. Previously regarded as a marginal and abandoned place – referred to as the “witches’ wood” – the Ninfeo was gradually reactivated through the joint efforts of the artists and the local administration.

Artistic production at the Ninfeo del Bramante.

C.T. Tatò recalls Comédie Italienne, Funerale, and Edith Christiansen Buñuel. The Ninfeo became a site of continuous artistic experimentation, fostering a growing sense of belonging and collective appropriation within the local community.

The cultural transformation of the territory.

C.T. Carla Tatò describes Genazzano as a close-knit community deeply rooted in peasant culture.
She presents travel as a transformative circular process: artists, conceived as “navigators”, moved across different cultural contexts and returned to the territory carrying re-elaborated experiences. The local community actively participated in this process, recognising itself within an ongoing dynamic of transformation that connected local and international dimensions.

Reading Ritsaert Ten Cate’s testimony.

Comédie Italienne and Dispositif Scénique No. 1 at the Ninfeo del Bramante.

C.T. Carla Tatò describes the scenic configuration of Comédie Italienne, highlighting the use of the architectural columns as structural elements, the presence of multiple curtains, and the dynamic distribution of performers throughout the space.
The spectators’ experience was characterised by freedom of movement and the absence of fixed viewing positions.
Tatò then refers to Daniel Buren’s intervention, Dispositif Scénique No. 1, which transformed the space through a visual device based on serial striped patterns, introducing an additional perceptual layer.
The interaction between text (Rudi Fuchs), performer (Rino Sudano), and dance (Elsa Piperno) reveals a complex articulation of word, body, and space.

End of interview.